Half-Life Fallout: Team Fortress 2 Tips - Half-Life Fallout

-- UPDATE - 9/10/07 --

The guide I talk about writing up later in this thread is now COMPLETE although still in beta, which is to say more will be added, not that it will give you CTDs. It can be found on my site:



Simply click TF2 Guide on the right-hand side nav bar and have a squiz! Tell us what you think in this thread, since the guide kind of grew out of it. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. And don't forget to at least vote in my poll so I can see which classes need attention moar than others.

I'd like to thank those whose support I have for this, and effort is being made for it to become HLF content. That's right, an article (or otherwise) for the first time in over 2 years!

Thanks everyone, especially HLF as a whole, without which I wouldn't care nearly as much about TF2!

Regards,
Pie21

-- /UPDATE --

I've had a few games in TF2 recently where I've been on teams with people that just don't seem to know what's going on. They don't work well as a team, aren't good enough by themselves to make up for it, and seem to just give up trying to win and defend. This never works.

After a few such rounds, I noticed that the things they weren't doing were very similar every time, so I knocked up a quick list of some of the things in TF2 that everyone should do without thinking, things that should be common sense. It's long and I suspect not many people are going to read all of it, but even if you just read a couple of things on your favoured class(es), and then posted some of your own thoughts on what people don't do that they just should, it would help improve the overall 'gene pool' of TF2 noobery.

Things that should be common sense:

Scout
- Scout is quite a basic role. Not easy, but not confusing. Scouts have to keep moving, keep double jumping (changing directions in mid air often, like every jump) and distract enemies by manouvreing through their lines and getting up close to attack key target like enemy medics and heavies.

- Obviously they should be focusing on CPs too, but not just running into them. Sit back and snipe with the pistol (very effective at range if unnoticed) or jump around distracting enemies, then when there's a chance, sit in the CP. Even if you don't cap it, you move the little cap bar up so someone else can finish off easier. Also don't die - if superior forces come at you, run away and come back later - it's better than getting killed and waiting 20 seconds. Bottom line is you have to attack the CPs to encourage your teammates to do so too.

Soldier
- Best use for the soldier as opposed to other classes is as a sniper against fortified positions. Especially on Gravelpit when the Red team is holding the final point with tonnes of sentries and engineers and heavies and things up the top, pop out and spam the room with rockets. It's small and everything will take damage. Also spies should be taking out sentries, but if they're not, it's up to the soldier, not the heavy or demoman or something (depending on position). Soldiers should be used more like this to support their team rather than running around looking for easy kills to make their score better.

- Look for opportunities to use one of your cooler abilities, the rocket jump (applies to demoman pipe bomb jump too). Does around 50 damage, but you can get from the roof of the little house to the top platform of the tower in Gravelpit and start capping. It's also a good idea to do this on maps where you're rushing at the start if you've got a mdeic supporting you, since not only can you keep up with the medics (and to a degree the scouts), but the medic gets more ubercharge (see next point).

- Doesn't make me particularly angry when people don't do it, but at the start of those CP maps where you get like a minute setup, soldiers/demomen should be blowing themselves up down to low health so medics can heal them and increase their ubercharge level faster. You can get an uber in 60 seconds this way.

Pyro
- People tend to play the pyro alright, since he's pretty much a mayhem class - run in and burn. I don't really get pissed of with pyros, but they should run around defensively (once in a while) and burn everyone they see to try and find some spies. Just routinely, not all the time.

Demoman
- People who play demoman tend to be good with him. It's especially good if on maps like Granary in the middle the demoman plugs up one entrance with sticky bombs and the rest of the team defends the other entrance. No one dares walk over those things, especially in sudden death, but keep a lookout for spies who cloak over them.

Heavy
- Heavies are a prime target for spies, so they should always be watching their (and their medic's) back by spinning around quickly, shooting a bit, then spinning back again. Many (including myself sometimes) just assume the rest of their team is going to protect them, but that's not how it works.

- Also if you're a heavy and you suck, don't hog the medics. See Medic below.

Engineer
- MY GOD! FIRST PRIORITY is to BUILD A TELEPORTER ENTRANCE! Engineers don't do this because they don't get points for teleports. They'd much rather go build a sentry so that they actually get more than 0 kills because they're so terrible otherwise. EVERY ENGINEER IN THE GAME should start by running just outside spawn, placing a teleporter entrance, going back into spawn, refilling metal at the supplies cabinet, then going to the front lines and building either a dispenser or exit, followed by the one they didn't build. Finally build your sentry. The difference between 0 and 2 teleporters to the front lines is ridiculous, especially since you can get your slow heavies and soldier there in a blink. It's way faster to wait for a tele charging from 0% than running there yourself, so they can absolutely win the game.

- What also pisses me off with noob engies is they never seem to push forwards. If they have a level 3 sentry they will hardly ever blow it up, even if it's virtualy in their spawn and no use whatsoever. They should consistently move their gear up to the front lines so they can actually support their teammates, especially with dispensers for heavies (ammo).

Medic
- First things first - STAY BEHIND YOUR BUDDY. It's so pointless to run ahead or to the side and die, usually resulting in the heavy dying too, when all you had to do was stay still.

- Secondly, choose your buddy wisely. Just because there is a heavy doesn't mean you have to heal him. Generally it's a good idea and a great meatshield for your team, but if they can't hit the broadside of a barn, go and find someone else. Especially a soldier. A good soldier will give you a much better return than a bad heavy, the only problem being that when you uber them, they only get 4 rockets and the reloading wastes time. This isn’t too big a deal though, especially considering you are able to push forwards faster with them. Easiest way to choose a good buddy is to bring up the scoreboard with Tab and find the highest scoring soldier/heavy, and ask them to call for you.

- Finally, if you have your ubercharge ready, use it as soon as it looks useful. It's such a drainer as a buddy when your medic is fully charged and then he gets backstabbed by a spy. Spies will be drawn to you as a medic if you're fully charged - not only do you say it, but your gun glows too. Half decent spies will make you a priority.

Sniper
- Good snipers are good, bad snipers are a complete and utter waste of a teammate. If you go sniper, ask yourself, am I actually killing anyone? Take a look at the scoreboard. If you're not doing well, cut your losses and go medic. ALL teams ALWAYS need more medics. Any less than 2 and you're in trouble, if you have 0 you virtually can't win.

- Pick your targets. Don't waste your time trying to snipe a scout if you can hear a heavy somewhere. A fully charged headshot on a heavy easily does 450 damage and allows your team to push forward. Medics are priority 2, since dropping a medic makes their team much less dangerous for 30 seconds, and you can often find them standing still.

- Don't waste your time sitting at the back of your base when there's no one to shoot. Your job as sniper is to take people down from a distance, not just be at a distance.You don't necessarily have to be right up the front taking fire (although your SMG is pretty good at close range), but you can just as compentently defend your base by watching all the enemy's exits rather than your entrances (i.e. the places the enemy comes out of to attack.

Spy
- Anyone can be a mediocre spy, but to be a good spy you have to do more than just get kills, you have to play your support role and help out your team. This means as far as stabbing goes, make medics and heavies your top priority, and take out any snipers who are often sitting around by themselves. Always be on the lookout for undefended buildings and sap them, ESPECIALLY teleporter exits. Engineers never seem to rebuild them when they get destroyed, or at least they rebuild them further back from the front lines.

- Don't think you can't sap a sentry just because there's an engineer sitting on it. Get behind the engy, sap the turret, then as he goes the wrench it, you backstab him. Sentries can't shoot while they're sapped, so it won't kill you. 2 sentries and 2 engies is a different story, but if you can combine with another spy you can do some damage. Also sap any other nearby buildings before the sentry to force the engineer to decide which building to save. Stab him when he goes for the sentry. Bottom line is GO for the sentries then when they're down tell your team to move forward. I have my k button bound to "say_team THE SENTRIES ARE DOWN, MOVE FORWARD" or words to that effect.

People in general
- In a CP map, you cannot win if you don't take the points (except for sudden death which shouldn't be relied on, since the team that is good enough to take the points usually wins). Don't sit back and camp when there's no enemies in sight. Move forward, at least put up a contest. CP_Well angers me the most - as soon as the gates go down, EVERYONE should be rushing in to take up position. Even snipers and engineers. Get in that CP, watch for spies, take it and you gain a huge advantage of spawning about 10 seconds closer to the point, plus the enemy has the psychological disadvantage of assuming that now that you own the point it will be harder for them to take back, so they don't even bother going for it. From then on you just push forward slowly but surely.

- ALWAYS be on the lookout for suspicious behaviour and kill off any spies. They can wreak havoc if left unchecked.

- Go medic. This applies almost all the time. People seem to think going medic is a sacrifice, but my second best round score was with medic, and it's only one short of my best score with spy. You make the difference between winning and losing as a medic, and this is no more evident than in sudden death (see below) when your team has no medics and no heavies (happens more than you could imagine) and the other team has 3 medics and 3 heavies. You don't even stand a chance.

- In sudden death, YOU CAN CHANGE CLASS when you spawn and you don't die. I don't know how long your window is, but you have ample time to switch to a more helpful class (i.e. scout/sniper to medic/heavy/soldier). Do it.

__________________________________________________

And, GO! Your turn, what do you notice noobs doing wrong that can easily be fixed?

Very good pointers!

Excellent job pie21. I think once we get a good collection of tips, this should be made into an article and placed on the front page.

EDIT: I find that when I need to kill somebody as a Medic, the bonesaw is about as effective as the syringe gun, due to the syringes drop and low velocity. Also, stay mobile. Half of the other team is likely to be gunning for you, so jump around, hide behind those that you're healing and hide behind walls when you can.

Hrunting, on Sep 27 2007, 02:44 PM, said:

O rly? I could type it up better if anyone wants, and if I think about it probably make it twice as long. I get very bitter and have a long memory .

Quote

I don't use the bonesaw much, not because I think it's bad but because I find the syringe gun surprisngly effective, and because as a medic you want to stay alive to help your team. Maybe not so much outdoors, but inside where the target doesn't have much room to dodge, fire 40 little bullets at them and you're bound to hit with at least 10 or so. It makes a veritable wall of projectiles that can actually be quite intimidating (in the same way as a pyro or heavy) as opposed to say the single rocket of the soldier. Each one does like 5 damage I think, which doesn't sound like much but that's 50 damage right there. More accuracy of course means more pain. Not to mention it reloads fast.

Thanks anyway

Useful tips for spies, and team mates around ally spies.

Get your own team shoot you as you run disguised and into battle, The enemy will assume you're one of them, definitly running away from gunfire, Sure, your team will use a couple bullets, but you'll easily get behind enemy lines.

As an engineer, keep your back against a wall, but within reach of fixing your sentry and dispenser, that way, the spy will have trouble stabbing you in the back, tho, if anyone gets close, and you're in a corner, they're most probably a spy, shoot them to make sure.

As any class that has a shotgun, jump around!
Shotguns don't get any more accurate strafing or standing.

Lightnin, on Sep 27 2007, 05:34 PM, said:

Interesting point... are ANY weapons more accurate when standing still than when moving/jumping? Similarly does anything get more accurate when you crouch? The only gun that I can see being affected by movement is the sniper rifle, and even then it's incredibly random when standing still. I hate that gun.

Nice topic, pie21.

I have a tip for the Pyros out there:
Burning scouts, medics and engineers works great, they have little hit points in comparison to other classes.
Sometimes, if you are confident enough, you can run in there, burn them, retreat and let your fire do the rest of the work. Just make note of locations of health packs and think "Could he make it there?" or if there are hostile medics "Could he make it back?". Playing pyro you might feel like you are camping a bit.... But that's kind of the point, you ambush. Lots. And it's fun to watch them burn.

A pleasant look at our friend the Spy:
Spies that run into a base and just look dodgey is another thing I've noticed. When behind enemy lines, unskilled spies look a bit shocked; sharp jerky movements, sudden turns, and lurking! It's like they are on an alien planet and it makes the whole spying thing dead obvious. Observe your enemies well, learn, and for the love of god don't disguise as something they don't have.

More points - Choose your disguise wisely. Obviously. If I see a scout or sniper sitting in a stupid place, I will most likely shoot them and, oh look, it's a spy. And on that note: Try disguising as a friendly heavy and you will be pleasantly surprised at how many people high-tail it out of there.

Another pointer for spies - Beware the burnination! Avoid pyros like the plague! They ruin everything, you can't cloak, you can't get looked at without being spotted running around on fire in enemy lines, I mean, good lord man.

Snipers are also very good at taking out enemy sentries from places where the sentries can't reach them. Engineers are easy targets too, since they don't move much when repairing their buildings.

Demoman tip - ON 2Fort, plug your objective with sticky bombs and hide in your spawn area downstairs. When you hear "the enemy has taken your objective" or whatever, right click. Rinse and repeat. I got around 22 kills doing this the first time.

Pie21 you were always my favorite. :D

Good job on this thread man! Cheers for taking the time to type it all up. If you guys want to clean it up and make it all nicey nice, by all means do it. If it takes off I can see about getting it setup for HLF content, or at least a sticky.

Let me know what you all think.

To all concerned:
Thank you! Keep them coming. I'm writing up something of an article, a guide if you will, on TF2 because I love it so much. Not just tips on classes but the attributes of each class and the primary and secondary ways to play them. Tips as well of course I might have a bit on specifics if I can be bothered working them out, but honestly it's probably easier for someone to just have a look at the code.

After some painstaking research (it's amazing how hard it is to get someone to shoot you the right way) I've found some facts and figures that may interest you. When a spy disguises himself, he doesn't always take the name of the class he disguises as. I disguised as a sniper, and got an enemy sniper to tell me I was not his name but some other guy who wasn't a sniper. There's always a chance you'll take their name of course, but it's not a given.

As for snipers, and 0% charged shot to the chest does around 60 damage, uncharged to the head is 150 dmg, fully charged to the chest is about 190 dmg, fully charged to the head is 450+ dmg. In case you were wondering.

As for pyros, as long as you're on fire, you take 3 - 5 damage every half a second for about 8 seconds. The initial puff of flame took me from 125 to 115, then after I stopped burning I was on 56 hp. I don't know if each flame does 10 dmg, or if they do more like 5 but you take burn damage the instant your are ignited, but the important part is 3 - 5 damage every half second for around 8 seconds.

As for RaiLs, I love you too, but not as much when you talk all American and leave your 'u's out of favourite.

As for Trooper, the man himself! Your support is greatly valued We haven't had an article in, oh, about 2 decades (but seriously, the last article was a Half-Life 2: Capture the Flag Preview from December 2005, and before that there was Half-Life 2 Story Speculation - Part 2 from November 3 2004), so I really don't know how they work. Each page seems to be just less than a page of 12pt Calibri in Word, so my scout bit alone would be like 2 article pages. So either it's an article on each class separately or a massive, like 20 page article on all of them. And that's without pictures. Or I just make it obscenely short. Or I just put it up on an external site (Freewebs or some junk site) and link to it. Votes?

I vote pie21 to be elected as "da man" for all things TF2, and that his upcomming article be made an actual HLF feature.
I also reckon he should take into notice what everyone is saying here, and implement some of the good tips into his guide.


...having a full gameplay guide online before the full game is eve out...how cool is that?
Probably the hardest part will be to get a hold of Mr. Bond and get him to reinstate the site features just a week after taking it off the front page.

Yeah thats a cool idea, I think it would be best if the classes would be separate guides.

Brumisator, on Sep 28 2007, 01:32 AM, said:

Wow, teh Brumi too... I must be going up in the world. Does "da man" constitute a custom title? j/k of course.

I am definitely taking in what people are saying. e.g. Slick^'s tip about the demoman on 2Fort got me thinking... maybe I could do a little guide on each map as well. You know, what works what doesn't. the21st reminded me of another use for offensive snipers - not to mention they can drop any building still under construction in 1 shot.

Anyway, I'm dog tired (1:30am) and I've got final Year 12 exams in like a month and honestly if I'm doing anything it should be study, so I'm going the hell to bed. See how this mess of threads I'm involved in on the front page unfurls itself by tomorrow morning. I'll still keep hacking away at my TF2 creation though, don't you worry. It's actually fun... is that wrong? Maybe I just reallllly like this game. God what a pointless rant, GOODNIGHT. And of course, everyone check out the HLF Wiki thread and get back into it! Even if MeltingIce isn't around anymore =(