Half-Life Fallout: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward - Half-Life Fallout

Trailer:

Movie (2 hours 40 mins):

• http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/
  
• http://en.wikipedia....i/Jacque_Fresco
  
• http://www.thevenusproject.com/

Discuss...

I've been trying... really trying to find a point to this thread, to that video, to those links...it's just not coming to me...

Someone help me, am I becoming an idiot (or have I always been one?), if so, what is the message here?

Brumisator, on 22 January 2011 - 08:26 PM, said:

Was that a rhetorical question or should I drop the bad news?

The point of this thread is to inform members of the biggest independent film release in human history. Similtaniously on the 15th on January this film was screened in hundreds of theatres, in 60 countries and 30 languages. On the 25th it will be availiable online.

I would like to take this forum back to the old days of heated political debate. Although I know my nemesis, w-ninja, is no longer with us... may god rest his avatar... I'm sure some of you still have some fight in you. So, have at it!

The first link on the list brings you to a place where you can watch Peter Joseph's films (namely Zeitgeist: Addendum). Watching this film seriously affected my world view and is not to be missed.

Oh god, the horror, THE HORROR

Funny you should mention w-ninja...

DyingTickles, on 22 January 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

Why's that?

OK, let me start the "heated political debate", then:

The ideas put forth in that movie and its adjacent articles are laughable from a basic psychological standpoint.

Brumisator, on 22 January 2011 - 07:39 PM, said:

Agreed.

As much as I loved those past arguments simply for their entertainment value, I think we'd need more than just a handful of active members to get a proper one going. Unless the one mowgli summoned arrives...

Mowgli, on 22 January 2011 - 02:16 PM, said:

Oh, he never left... just trolls soo hard you cannot detect his physical presence.


Going to see the movie, brb

EDIT: after watching the movie I can say forth that many of the points carried out there have some logical flaws and make wide assumptions about the ills of humanity and the faith of humanity.

1st Part:

Doctors, Corporations, (Rich people, they?) are causing illness, devastation, malcontent in humanity for profit.

2nd Part:

As a society we are collapsing because of our monetary system and those who control it, the whole world/planet is in a detrimental crisis about to explode any moment

3rd Part:


the end is coming, are you ready to be scared until you are fully brainwashed by this movie?




This movie feels like its going to drive many people into paranoia, doing what failed media does and explode local issues into massive hysteria about to destroy the planet.

I'd say the biggest issue that I have is that somehow all the points that the movie makes have been suddenly created in the last century, where it did not exist in the past, or affected us as much. I would say the opposite is even more truthful than ever, corporations have less control in our lives, there is much higher wealth of information and programs to liberate ourselves from control, but there are stupid people, and those stupid removed or killed (as easily)

These theories always reflect on someone else's fault and/or responsibilities, nothing in that movie showed how we are governing our lives leads us into these "oppressive" systems, it just blames "them" (rich/power hungry people)

Sorry, let me try a more w-ninja-like approach: (for satiric purposes)

DyingTickles, on 23 January 2011 - 04:51 AM, said:

Agreed on what? If you don't give proper context, your opinion is not qualifiable or quantifiable, and therefore, void.

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You are on the internet, where no love exists.

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Either you are arguing, or you are having fun, you can't mix both. Make up your mind, and accept that I am right.

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Are you infering that the validity of a debate is directly porportional to the number of debaters involved? Well then what do you have to say about the age-long feud of catgirls vs. lolcats vs. Captain Picard?

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Your entire line of reasoning is fallacious, you can't extrapolate an entire line of reasoning from the presence of one advocate!

Brumisator, on 22 January 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

Lol, perfect impression of w-ninja.

suicide_mission, on 22 January 2011 - 10:04 PM, said:

Correct. They did not affect us because the labour market had genuine value, and money reprisented tangible resources such as gold or cotten. Now, around 90% of money in circulation is created out of debt through the fractional reserve banking system. And the labour market is shrinking due to automation, so jobs are arbitrarily created just so there is always a market to ensure the economy keeps growing, to settle that debt. Infinite growth on a planet with finite resources?

suicide_mission, on 22 January 2011 - 10:04 PM, said:

I agree, and that is why the film is called 'Zeigeist', because people are beginning to think of alternative systems. But the majority of people are unaware how limiting this system of banking is for our progression, and the terrible inequality it causes... and the ill effects inequality creates in society that we throw money at trying to fix; poverty, crime, etc.

suicide_mission, on 22 January 2011 - 10:04 PM, said:

This is where I disagree and feel you've missed the point of the film. "There is no 'they', there is just us." The film does not blame the rich and power hungry, but states that these undesirable traits are symptoms of the monitary system. It is a system of differential advantage, meaning someone will always have more than someone else, and every sub-system we have relies upon these pyramids of heirarchy which you must climb to have a 'high' (high being relative to those who live in complete poverty) standard of living. We are born into this competitive system, it is the environment that defines who we become.

Also, look up 'planned obsolescence' for an example of the kind of unethical, wasteful practices industry uses to perpetuate demand in a market system that requires it.

Note: Zeitgeist: Moving Forward is now availiable on torrent. I watched some of the first part last night, and it was all about human nature. It had a bunch of experts giving interesting facts about how children develop in different environments.

Edit:

Equality vs. Inequality Statistics:

Life expectancy - High vs. Low.
Drug abuse - Low vs. High.
Mental Illness - Low vs. High.
Trust in others - High vs. Low.
Success in education - High vs. Low.
Homicide rates - Low vs. High.
Crime/Imprisonment - Low vs. High.
Infant mortality - Low vs. High.
Obesity - Low vs. High.
Teen pregnancy - Low vs. High.
"Innovation" - High vs. Low.

There is a inverse correlation between illness and income.

Mowgli, on 23 January 2011 - 02:36 AM, said:

That pretty much sums natural selection. Those who do not survive, die off 'naturally'. Also, backed by tangible objects? How is that different from now? How do you gauge a pig/horse/gold to a paper bill/coin? Up to a point, someone decides to put an arbitrary value to it and then everything else derives from it, and most likely feedbacks into its own value. The only difference with US monetary system is that they chose to accept a government backed system so that they could print more money to pay for more services, accepting inflation as a consequence.

If we were backed by gold, our money supplies would suffer from deflation and hurt the economy by reducing economic growth due to lack of increased gold supplies to support growing businesses.

I might look at the film, but I'm getting a "Michael Moore" vibe

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But is it causation?

suicide_mission, on 23 January 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

You are right to state 'naturally' as an ambiguous term in this case, because natural selection, as Darwin described it, is genetic adaptation to the environment. What we fail to realise is we have control over our environment, and have created an artificial need to fight for survival, through scarcity and social stratification.

suicide_mission, on 23 January 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

The problem with inflation/interest is that is makes no sense mathematically. If all the money in circulation were used to pay back all the debt, there would still be massive amounts of money owed, which is impossible and ridiculous. The hoarding of materials to give your nation value could never be sustainable in terms of infinite economic growth, which is exactly why the money market was created.

The problem that has arisen from this stock market style trading, where money is itself a commodity, is that we have lost sight of the perpose and definition of an economy. It's now about constant growth, disconnected from the effect on human life or the resources of the planet. This 'economy' is not economic, it's clearly wasteful and inefficient. That contradiction alone is indefensible.

suicide_mission, on 23 January 2011 - 12:25 PM, said:

The cause is stress. More hardship, more stress, more occurances of things like heart disease and mental illness, a tendency to smoke and drink, have a bad diet etc. the list goes on and on...

Note: The Venus Project is about redesigning society using the scientific method with the goal of sustainability and high living for all. Earth resource management. Resource-Based Economy for equality, rather than an imaginary monitary economy that causes so much inequality.

Mowgli, on 23 January 2011 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'd be more inclined to say certain aspects of our current economic system are flawed and not all that beneficial except those hoping to make some short term money. In it's principal banking is quite beneficial.

That inequality is something we can't really completely fix. Selfish people will always exist and find a way to work things in their favor and people will always require a smaller group to be in a position of power and authority.

suicide_mission, on 23 January 2011 - 06:25 PM, said:

Though the value was always something attributed by man, there was something physical attached to it. Whether it was a pig, iron or a service done for you it was what drives the economy.
As it stands, there are many system and products that rely on intangible things. Monetary products who derives it value from the prediction rather from actual shift in supply and demand.
The system is getting disconnected from actual supply & demand and becomes about virtual/made up supply and demands.

Mowgli, on 23 January 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

Actually a lot of our health problems lie in primal instincts towards our diet. We are still hardwired to eat like we're hunter-gatherers, while our wealth gives us the chance to do so with minimal effort.
Stress of our competitive society is off course another factor, though I believe to have read it's more a catalyst than a cause.

Mowgli, on 23 January 2011 - 06:54 AM, said:

we gain control once we understand that we are under control AND have the tools to free ourselves, until then, people are still left to fight for survival to whatever environment they are raised in. The 'natural' medium keeps going on.

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BUT!, once economic growth slows down, you get deflation and all those debts turns into profits. Its a give & take.


As for the comment about the massive amounts of money, I started reading some info on the internets and it still goes both ways, all those people who lent money are affected by inflation, so while the money is still in repayment, they are constantly loosing worth on every dollar they lent, so they calculate their lose in their interest rates. Its not all loose, since without them wanting to lend the money, there wouldnt be any good ways for business to get started without loans.


If you had a balanced system where population wouldn't grow you could create a balanced utopian market economy. Until then, i will stick with acceptable rates of inflation and debt.

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sounds like communism. Sounds nice, but it all gets messed up in practice and becomes more oppressive.

Berrie, on 23 January 2011 - 10:13 AM, said:

I agree, even 3rd world countries have less health issues because their basic staple doesn't consist of mcdonalds 2 times a day.